When Fear Persists:
Public Speaking in Times of Grief

Hi Makiko! Hi Karisha! Welcome to Rays of Light and the Fictional Village of Sunnyside. We hope you enjoy your time with us today. If you’d like to contact us, the link is in the show notes. We’d love to hear what’s on your mind.

It’s a drizzly Saturday in Sunnyside when Daniel Miller considers slamming his phone repeatedly against his granite countertop to stop hearing his ex-boyfriend Joe’s nagging voice and to hopefully also prevent Joe from ever calling again. When Joe ended the relationship months ago, he claimed it was because Daniel was unable to express, or possibly even feel, emotions like a normal human. And considering how dramatically expressive Joe always is, the crushing, crunching noise before disconnection would probably raise Daniel in his estimation.

K: So some people, like Joe seems to be, really feel emotions in their body. And others, like Daniel, tend to be a bit more detached from what’s going on in their bodies.

M: Yeah, and more sort of reserving their emotions. So that’s probably why Joe feels like Daniel is, you know, sort of lacking in expression. But it’s that the emotions are more important to them, it’s more dear to their heart, and so they don’t want to express that easily.

K: Right, it’s protective.

It’s the third time Joe’s called to beg Daniel to go to a therapist. When Daniel’s best friend Brent was dying in the intensive care unit, Daniel took time off work to be with him. But after his death, Daniel refused another break. That was two weeks ago.

Joe insists Daniel needs help processing his grief. Daniel believes staying as busy as possible will keep the sadness from killing him until the time thing everyone always promises kicks in. He believed in time before Brent’s accident, but now he suspects everything he’s ever heard is a lie, especially that bit about it being better to have loved and lost.

And then, Brent’s wife, Alison, asked Daniel to be the main speaker at the official memorial to be held a month after Brent’s death. It’s now only two weeks away. No one knows that Daniel is terrified of public speaking, and this situation when everyone will be depending on him to honor Brent’s memory is far more important than all the career advancement speaking opportunities he’s avoided. This fear has always seemed deeply embarrassing to Daniel, despite how common he knows it is.

K: This fear is very common, and I’m sure we’ve all heard about how when people fill out the surveys of their greatest fear, many people will put public speaking ahead of fear of death. So we know it’s a very serious fear, and a lot of people have it, and it’s for any type of performing, you know, musical, acting, anything like that.
K: So if you don’t have a fear of public speaking, you might have heard this and thought, why this fear? And one theory is that it’s evolutionary, because humans need other humans to survive, and if you were kicked out of the group for being different, something that we do think happened a lot, you would not survive. And so that has evolved to relate to this, where we feel like if we’re foolish, our brain takes it much further to, oh my gosh, I’ll be kicked out of the group and I won’t survive, even though that is not conscious.

M: Yeah, so having people in front of you, it’s sort of like self-judgment in a way that you have to perform well to be accepted by others, so I think that connects to your evolution theory.

K: Yes, I think so too. So I also had a fear of public speaking. It came to me in adulthood, I used to speak a lot as a child, and I worked on it pretty recently with a hypnotherapist, and it helped. So just a session or two, and yeah, I did not have the dread when I was actually asked to give a speech right after we worked on it coincidentally, and it was really helpful.

M: Cool. That’s pretty amazing that you were able to overcome that in one or two sessions. For a very long-standing fear, I think it can take longer, but…

K: Yeah, this wasn’t as bad as a lot of people have. I had memories of positive speaking, I don’t know why it started, and also it was more like a dread than a terror, like Daniel has. I wouldn’t avoid stuff, it wasn’t as bad as Daniel’s, but I did dread it and try to avoid also, but it wasn’t to the point of Daniel’s. But yeah, it is quite amazing not having it anymore, and then not feeling bad going up to the speech and not being really nervous when I was talking, so it was amazing.

Long before Brent’s death, Daniel researched ways to help himself, but nothing budged his fear. At work, he refused optional presentation requests, and when he was forced to speak in front of a group, he fumbled his words and was unclear.

K: So basically, like we talked about before, fear is a protection. So if you have an experience like you fumble your words and you’re unclear or you forget what you’re saying, then in the future you’ll try to avoid that, you’ll feel fear, and so you’ll try to avoid the situation.

M: Yeah, exactly. Fear is basically trying to protect you from doing that very thing that you’re fearful. And the thing is, people often think, you know, if I just push myself to do it again and again, then I’ll eventually get over it, and sometimes that works.

For example, when I was in college as a music student, I performed a lot naturally, but at first it was just casual performances in front of classmates, and you know, making a few mistakes wasn’t really that big of a deal. And so little by little I got used to being on stage. I still felt nervous, but I could manage it and perform.

And so, yes, if you’re only like a bit nervous, then you can build up gradually, and so in that case, repetition can help. But if you already have a real fear, like full-blown fear, then the same approach can backfire. In fact, that’s what happened when I was in graduate school, because probably, you know, I felt more pressure being in the graduate program, you know, to perform well, and I really wish I had known about hypnotherapy back then, but I didn’t.

So what happens is that every time you go through or you push yourself to go through those performances or, you know, public speaking with sweaty palms, racing heart, or a blank mind, and feeling like it didn’t go well, or even, you know, you failed again, kind of thing, then you’re teaching your brain to fear it even more. And so that’s why repetition can actually backfire. It can make your fear even worse.

The real breakthrough comes from, you know, like having small wins and then building on it, so building confidence, and that will start rewiring those old fear pathways.

K: Right. And hypnosis really helps with that.

M: Oh, yes, definitely. That’s why I wish I had known hypnotherapy back then, but I didn’t.

K: If only.

Daniel’s main job is working as a scenario analyst at a financial services firm. And he’s also one of the many co-owners of Sunnyside Books, where he’s had to hear co-owner Marie Lou talk about the wonders of hypnotherapy far too often. He doesn’t think he can be hypnotized, and he’s definitely not going to give anyone control over his mind, but he’s willing to try anything at this point.

K: So first off, the person in hypnosis is always in control. So that’s something people often think, that you’re giving up control, but you’re absolutely not giving up control. Other things he said, well, hypnosis is often, hypnotherapy is often a last resort.

K: We find that a lot. And about not being able to be hypnotized, as we’ve talked about in other episodes, everyone can be hypnotized. We all experience hypnosis daily.

K: The very common one is about half an hour before we go to sleep and about half an hour after we wake up. And that is why we are very suggestible to anything we take in at those times. It’s really important to have positive calming influences at those times.

K: But there’s many other times we’re in hypnosis, naturally environmental hypnosis. And so that’s how we know everyone can be hypnotized.

M: Right.

During the phone consultation with hypnotherapist Raina, Daniel is surprised to feel an ache behind his eyes when he mentions Brent’s death. He moves quickly on, focusing resolutely on his goal for their sessions. By the time of Daniel’s first hypnotherapy session, he’s down to 12 days before the memorial.

He hasn’t been sleeping or eating well, and he’s barely able to focus on work. He told Raina he would meet with her anytime she could fit him in, as he had already received clearance from his boss, who had been very supportive over Daniel’s need for two weeks of unusual flexibility.

The first session is early in the morning. Even though Daniel is usually at work by now, he notices that Raina seems cheerful and alert while he can barely function after another difficult night. “Thank you for getting me in so quickly”, he says. “I haven’t even come up with a single idea for the speech yet. I just sit there thinking about how I’m running out of time.”

“Who will be listening to your speech?” Raina asks. Daniel thinks this is both obvious and unimportant, but he answers politely. “Brent’s wife Alison and her family, his parents and brother, his other friends, his co-workers. His baby, but she’s only 14 months.”

“So the audience is all people who, like you, care deeply about Brent. Think about the people that will be listening to you. What might you be able to provide them with that no one else can?” It takes Daniel a moment to change to this perspective. These are the only people in the world who can fully understand how devastating and unbearable it is that this particular, unique, wonderful person has died.

Even though everyone’s relationship with Brent is different, they are all joined in knowing him well and caring for him deeply. Slowly, Daniel realizes that focusing on the people who love Brent has changed how he feels, and he tells Raina this. “I can’t tell you how it changed.” He asks quickly, hoping she won’t ask him to explain.

“This speech is an act of generosity”, Raina says. Daniel’s eyes fill with tears. He never cries, which Joe says shows a stunted emotional intelligence that is not only preventing him from processing and healing, but also taking decades of his life. Joe is nothing if not dramatic. Still, Daniel holds the tears back. He doesn’t want to waste time crying when they have important work to do.

K: Tears are a form of venting, and they do speed up healing.

M: Yes, and in a way, it’s detoxing too, which is why it helps the healing process go faster. Also, that’s another reason why you actually feel better afterward, like a sense of relief, lighter, clearer. At least I do.

K: Me too. Some people, like Daniel, they seem to feel kind of guilty about crying, at least in front of other people.

M: Yeah, that’s true.
Raina asks how Daniel wants to feel in the time leading up to his speech, and he says he would like to feel calm. “And also, like, I’m going to do something good for Brent. I know he would want me to support his wife more than anything, and she asked me to do this for whatever reason.”

“What reasons might she have?” Daniel is quiet for a few moments. “Brent and I are best friends, like brothers. I spent a lot of time with him and Allison, especially before they had their baby.” There’s a long silence. “I can’t believe Mellie is not going to know her dad.”

After about a minute passes, Raina asks how Daniel would like to feel when giving his speech. “I don’t want to ramble and be unclear.”

“Good. And what might help with that?”

“Feeling calm and confident that I’m the right person to do some sort of justice to his memory. There must be a reason we have memorials. They help, right?”

“They help.”

Daniel sighs. “Okay.”

“Hypnosis is great for these goals you have, as we talked about on the phone. In this first session, we’ll focus on finding out how you take in information, because everyone is different, and we’ll make it possible so in future sessions you can quickly get to the depth that feels right for you.”

After the session is over, Daniel is relieved that Raina seems to understand what he needs. He’s a little concerned that she said the suggestions might not become apparent right away, but he’s still scheduled the next day at the same time.

K: This is pretty unusual to have sessions two days in a row. The first session is foundation building, so there’s no reason not to have two sessions in a row. Just people don’t usually. He does have such a short time period, and he really wants another session.

K: Also, the first session tends to be very foundation building, so that is the most likely one you’d do another session very close to if you wanted to do so. Also, a lot of people have a delayed reaction to suggestions. So for those people, you might even want longer time between sessions, because it will take longer for them to notice the difference.

After the second session, Daniel has a 20-minute recording to listen to daily and the challenge to sit down and think about his memorial speech for two minutes. Daniel wants to schedule for the following morning again, but Reina suggests he waits two days and then lets her know what progress he’s made on his speech and how he’s feeling overall.

After work, Daniel sits at his kitchen table for two minutes but can’t focus. He gets up and walks around, but it’s too exhausted to keep moving. He wants to take a nap, then decides to listen to his recording. Even though he had his session earlier that morning. He isn’t sure if he dozes off during part of it, but he hears the ending and feels wide awake afterward.

K: Sometimes people feel like they’ve fallen asleep, but if they hear the ending and then are alert afterwards, they were not asleep.

M: Yep, absolutely. So in other words, when you’re listening to these recording sessions, and you do wake up after 10 minutes or 30 minutes after the recording had already ended, then you’re definitely asleep. And we don’t recommend our clients to listen to the recording laying down in bed, because that is a sure thing to fall asleep.

K: Yeah, but if you’re tired, you’re just going to fall asleep. If you haven’t had enough sleep, it’s just going to happen because hypnosis is so relaxing. But yeah, if you want to get all the suggestions, it’s important to be awake. You can always listen again, or you’ll get the suggestions from before you fell asleep.

K: And of course, sometimes we do do recordings to help people sleep, and that’s different. There won’t be a count up at the end.

M: That’s right, yeah. For the sleep purposes, the recording will end so that you can just go into sleep and stay asleep. So we don’t bring you out of the hypnosis in those recordings.

Daniel microwaves some leftover pasta and thinks about how he knew Brent had fallen in love with Alison. Suddenly, he knows that this is how he will begin his speech. Daniel does one more session before the memorial. This one is to work on releasing the intense guilt he has over a two-day-old text message from Brent he hadn’t yet responded to when the accident occurred.

He isn’t any less sad after that. His grief feels stronger. At first, more unbearable. But he sits with it, and does bear it. He cries a little, and sits some more. Then, he remembers that Raina mentioned some people write letters to loved ones who have died. He decides he might as well give that a try. For the next hour, he spends time writing and thinking.

K: Letter writing is a very valuable activity. I highly recommend it to everyone. There’s so many reasons it can be useful. Like in Daniel’s case, writing a letter to someone that you can no longer communicate with. Otherwise, it can really help with your healing.

M: Definitely. In fact, my dad passed away this January. I wasn’t in Japan, actually. I was not able to be with him when he passed. I did write him a letter when I heard about the news. I corresponded with my sister. She was writing a letter to him to put it in his coffin. I did write a letter. That was quite helpful.

K: I definitely recommend doing that. That’s also something I did this year with a very sad loss. I also recommend it to people that are living. You might not give it to them, also. If you have unfinished, complicated business, or maybe a fight, even; it’s not best to talk to them about it. Everyone knows we all have different relationships. It can really be helpful just easing your distress over.

There’s also complimentary letters that you can send to people that are still living. That’s a wonderful heartwarming activity. It’s very inspirational. You don’t have to send those, either. Just writing. You can write a letter to yourself. That’s a good one. There’s so many ways that this can be used. I have done many of them. They’re very helpful. I think probably the most powerful. I think it’s because we’re the most sad. The most powerful thing is when someone dies. That is a really great time to write a letter. We’ve never said everything we wanted to say. It’s just not possible.

M: That’s true. What you just said about writing letters to yourself, that could be really good for inner child. If you are working with your inner child, that could also be really good, I think.

K: Right.

At the memorial, he’s next to Allison. On her other side is her mom, who is rocking a sleeping Mellie in her carrier. Brent’s parents are in the row in front of them, with Brent’s brother and some other relatives.

Allison touches his arm as he stands to go to the front of the room to speak. Daniel has some typed pages with him, but he doesn’t need them for the beginning. He looks directly at Allison and says, “I will always remember how I knew Brent had finally fallen in love.”

Thank you so much for joining us in Sunnyside. If you have a friend who might benefit from this episode, please share it.

We’d like to thank High Street Jack for providing our theme song.
Makiko is our master of post-production, process management, and the website.
And stories for Rays of Light are written by Karisha.